Thursday, May 29, 2008

Interesting Quote

I ran across this quote from a letter of Henry Ward Beecher to Secretary of War Edwin Stanton in the book A Ruined Land: The End of the Civil War: "We are in danger of too much northern management of the negro. The black man is just like the white, in this--that he should be left, & obliged to take care of himself. I think nursing will only pauperize him. I see in the movements about here a tendency to dandle the black man" (256-257).

Any thoughts?

7 comments:

Elisabeth M said...

Yes, yes and yes. I completely agree with her. I get really annoyed by the reverse racism in this current culture - the anti discrimination laws that end up reversing the discrimination - and, of course, to bring such a concept up would completely be unpolitically correct. There was a huge hubabaloo in this area when it was made it way easier to get into the University of Washington if you *weren't* white. Way way easier. It just annoys me. Same thing with a lot of other arenas, especially education. The nursing of the African American 'race' has given them an excuse to have culturally lower standards, which I think is rather silly. There was a book/article written about this a ways back . . . I can't remember the title for the life of me, I wish I could - talking about a girl who grew up in a half white/half black household where she was immersed in both cultures and found a typical African American culture so distasteful because of the low expectations with race/culture as an excuse.

Sir David M. said...

Excellent,excellent! You already know my thoughts on this generally, but I'm quite surprised to see that such thoughts were expressed (or even had reason to be) as far back as that. I'm perpetually amazed at how profoundly insightful people often were in those days. I must read this book.

Cosmo said...

I certainly don't think it's a good thing to nurse anyone- that's counterproductive. On the other hand, I think there are pretty good reasons for college policies like the one mentioned above- I agree that black culture is in pretty bad shape, and one of the best ways to counteract that is to educate "underprivileged" (I hate that word, but it's a good catch-all) black kids so that they can get good jobs and be counter-cultural role models.

Now, you might say that it's just as important to get underprivileged white kids into colleges. Yes, that's important, but there is no nationwide negative white culture that's pulling young people into sex, drugs and poverty. Trying to counteract the negative parts of black culture isn't nursing- it's smart policy.

Robert said...

Elisabeth,

Could you give some examples of the "nursing of the African American race?" Does the fact that prisons inmates are overwhelmingly black constitute nursing? Or the fact that 80% of the people pulled over on the New Jersey Turnpike are black, while they only make up some 20% of the drivers? Or is it how when job applications are sent out, identical except that one set has names that sound "white" while others have traditionally black names, the latter overwhelmingly perform worse?

I do agree that having radically different standards for college admissions can be problematic. However, my experience with the (generally highly intelligent) black students I've tutored here at Baylor is that people simply refuse to believe they're smart, asking instead "so, what sport are you here for?" Couldn't it be helpful to get a higher African-American population in colleges to help defuse that horrible stereotype?

Elisabeth M said...

I think a lot of the nursing results from their culture itself . . . there seems to be an overwhelmingly large population of what might be termed 'underprivileged' or low income blacks as compared to the population of whites in the same situation.

It would help diffuse the stereotype, but the lower cultural standards present in such societies that make it a cultural oxymoron to be smart or driven. I think it's really sad that many employers don't want to hirer black employees because of the cultural stereotypes surrounding their race. But I don't think government sanctions, scholarships, extra programs specifically for blacks and such are going to help - it's even more of cultural excuse, I guess. Government counteraction really has never worked - as we saw with the civil rights movement, it was more of an entire societal shift that occurred to reverse the discrimination.

Sir David M. said...

I agree with Elisabeth that blacks bring much of it on themselves. While there's certainly no native difference of intelligence between one race and another (as far as we know) the so-called "black culture" has no very high intellectual expectations. Poor English, for instance, is deliberately cultivated, and studiousness is actually looked down upon, at least among the young. I really can't blame white people for the stereotypical ideas of blacks that are in circulation.

Secondly, could you explain, Robert, just how getting "a higher African-American population in colleges" would come about? If you're speaking of measures such as affirmative action, then I'd have to disagree that it would help matters at all. For one thing, it's not the business of the government on any level to try to change the way we think, even if we hold what they consider to be harmful stereotypes. For another thing, if special effort is made to get more black students into colleges and universities, it's not going to change any stereotypes, because everyone will no that the reason for the increase is not due to an increased recognition of black intelligence and scholastic ability, but rather by government social engineering. All this does, as has been demonstrated, is to reinforce such harmful notions, for people are more likely to assume that a black student didn't truly earn his way, but is just there because the universities are being forced to accept more blacks. And this doesn't even touch on the fact that it is genuinely unfair to whites.

And I'm not denying that there is racial discrimination under the circumstances that you described, and I'm not denying that it is evil. But I just don't see how anything other than a revolution of "black culture" is going to help. Nothing anyone else *does* is going to change the way whites perceive blacks.

On a different note, why is racial discrimination considered so much more evil than any other form? Should we make laws mandating that more companies hire fat and/or ugly people? They're just as often and just as easily discriminated against.

Robert said...

Completely agreed about the cultural aspect. I remember being distressed and outraged over Charles Murray's book The Bell Curve, hoping that its ideas of race-based intelligence weren't true, and then talking to a girl who had long ago dated a black kid who dressed traditionally, got high test scores, wanted to get into an Ivy League school, etc. And he was completely ostracized for "going white" by his fellow African Americans.

Obviously, there's a problem here, one that is genetically related to similar problems in white "redneck" culture and religious fundamentalism: that knowledge, use of the intellect, and cultivation of Western European civility is somehow suspicious. And I agree that the government, per se, cannot change that.

However, I do believe that going through four years of college *can* help that. And since we have public universities, I think that plenty of financial help is in order (not quotas, but scholarships) to get not only African Americans, but poor whites, Latinos, etc. etc. through the university system.

Also, whites in general need to be more aware of these issues. Like, there should be think tanks, television ads, whatever. It's a problem if they think that all black kids in college are there because of some cushy program (NOT true!) or that an applicant named Kareem is inherently less productive than one named Jack.

Also, I'd have to potentially disagree about the changing of harmful thinking. Not that the government can actually change thinking, but the results of that need to be ruthlessly prosecuted. So if it can be proven that an employer has denied someone on the basis of race (or sexual orientation, or gender, or anything "unchangeable") then there need to be penalties, not just head-shaking and tongue-clicking by the enlightened university crowd.