tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post6828300094169944960..comments2023-06-02T01:34:30.625-07:00Comments on Musings of a Protestant: Making a Monster: The Trouble with AdolescentsConnor Hamiltonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08097290051410041962noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-3324724236916979782007-10-26T11:51:00.000-07:002007-10-26T11:51:00.000-07:00Hey man,Good thoughts. I enjoyed reading it. I t...Hey man,<BR/><BR/>Good thoughts. I enjoyed reading it. I thought you made a particularly good point here: "Behavior that fathers and mothers would have called rebellious fifty years ago is now considered simply teenage. 'Oh, well, she’s a teenager,' parents will say as they roll their eyes. 'Can’t wait to push her off to college.'"<BR/><BR/>When you lower expectations it's hard to break the downward spiral.<BR/><BR/>I also liked what you said about not expecting to learn everything from your direct peers, but rather learning with them and expecting to learn from the older generation. We should be open to lessons from wherever they come, be it peer, those elder or those younger than yourself. <BR/><BR/>Some things that made me think:<BR/>"He is expected to follow their manners, their morals, and their styles of dress and speech."<BR/>"..a product of the overwhelming pressure to conform that exists there."<BR/><BR/>Whilst this very readily describes teenagers, I find it scary to think that it often applies to christianity as much if not more. Particularly middle-class western christianity.<BR/><BR/>It's important that people think for themselves and are encouraged to reach their own conclusions, or what we pass on will not reach the subsequent generations in a healthy way. Forcing people to conform to something will not produce well-rounded balanced people.<BR/><BR/>I don't think I agree with this statement:<BR/><BR/>"..guided almost wholly by other teenagers."<BR/><BR/>As has been discussed already, the media has a lot to answer for. And I'm not sure it's as easy as saying which came first. What is see is that money drives A LOT of peer pressure. And that drive seems to come from the money-makers. More through advertising and marketing than hollywood necessarily. Although I guess they drive each other.<BR/><BR/>The pack mentality in conforming is not exclusive to teenagers.<BR/><BR/>That's about it. Sorry for the long comment.<BR/><BR/>Tobytobiwanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09584524712837958391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-47276329024761194292007-09-13T09:28:00.000-07:002007-09-13T09:28:00.000-07:00My thanks to those who commented! You make a good ...My thanks to those who commented! You make a good point that we stunt growth in children even before they're teenagers, David. <BR/><BR/>Thank you for dropping in, Glennsp. I'm always happy have to have new readers! <BR/><BR/>A former Torrey tutor? Alas, did I send my precis in on time? Are my cites all correct? Did--oh. Calm down, Connor, it's all right. ;-) Thank you so much, Mr. Anderson! I'm honored. <BR/><BR/>And thank you, Erin, as I said before.Connor Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08097290051410041962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-5561195965999910222007-09-12T12:40:00.000-07:002007-09-12T12:40:00.000-07:00This post truly inspired me, Connor. Splendid wri...This post truly inspired me, Connor. Splendid writing! God has blessed me with friends like you (and other ISLASers) to help me stand up against the ways of the world. I'm definitely going to send this post to all the teenagers I know.<BR/><BR/>God Bless, and keep up the great writing! :)<BR/><BR/>~ErinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-78914632530251052392007-09-12T08:19:00.000-07:002007-09-12T08:19:00.000-07:00As a former Torrey Academy tutor, this post makes ...As a former Torrey Academy tutor, this post makes me proud. Well done.Matthew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11475363484356386562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-80138727946962717112007-09-10T16:03:00.000-07:002007-09-10T16:03:00.000-07:00I believe it is possible to trace the beginnings o...I believe it is possible to trace the beginnings of the so called 'teenager' to the aftermath of the Second World War.<BR/>Your post is an excellent analysis of the prevailing problem today.<BR/>As to Hollywood, if the market wasn't there it would not be able to feed it.<BR/>Also the unwillingness of parents to discipline their children and the continued efforts of a minority to ban effective discipline in the home all feed the sad thing called 'teenager'.Glennsphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18157051195736064330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-46741670419700404212007-08-29T14:51:00.000-07:002007-08-29T14:51:00.000-07:00Splendid post as usual, Connor. I wish I had time ...Splendid post as usual, Connor. I wish I had time to comment more fully, but you've expressed something that I've become increasingly aware of in my studies of history. <BR/><BR/>I think the trouble that we have with teens, however, has its roots in the trouble we have with children. Compare a book written for children under 13 today to one written for children of the same age 100 or even 50 years ago. The difference is tremendous. We deliberately condescend to children and teach them to wallow in their childhood, rather than instructing them in such a way as to allow them to naturally grow out of it. The result is that by the time they reach the teen years, they're already quite stunted. We tend to forget that a child is someone learning how to be an adult, and that an adult is someone who has learned how to not be a child. In fact, every period of life is spent (or should be spent) in learning how to move beyond it. But at the same time, we oughtn't to be in too much of a hurry to do so. To use your pupa analogy--a butterfly who emerges prematurely from his cocoon and without struggling to free himself will never fly. So a balance, as usual, is necessary.Sir David M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09598224719576403082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-20728329167857023982007-08-29T14:50:00.000-07:002007-08-29T14:50:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sir David M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09598224719576403082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-64904963504025511352007-08-29T11:05:00.000-07:002007-08-29T11:05:00.000-07:00Hello, Philip! Thanks for your comment. It's certa...Hello, Philip! Thanks for your comment. <BR/><BR/>It's certainly true that popular culture influences the teenage mindset--as I said in my post, it's a combination of cultural pressures, low expectations, and consequently abysmal parenting. I think, however, that these cultural patterns may not be so much the cause of the modern teenager as his product. If parents and other authority figures had not rolled over and permitted teenagers to rebel (like Mom was talking about in her comment), then likely Hollywood would never have the conception of a teenager to fuel the entertainment business. Likely enough it has become a vicious circle, with teens informing the entertainment industry and the industry informing the teens, but raise the teens right and the industry disappears, because there is no longer any market. <BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, you are quite right that one major step to rectifying the problem--raising the teens right--would probably be trying to shake off Hollywoodness (if one is a teen) and to shelter one's children from undue influence. It's just that if parents hadn't failed in the first place, Hollywood wouldn't have had any mental image of the teenage years to promote. How much better things might have been in that case! <BR/><BR/>~ConnorConnor Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08097290051410041962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-80709834551578060412007-08-29T08:51:00.000-07:002007-08-29T08:51:00.000-07:00Ah, but Philip, we stay away from all that stuff! ...Ah, but Philip, we stay away from all that stuff! Actually, though, I think the cure to teenagerism is teenagers' parents and other adult authorities. I'm reading a book called <I>The Death of the Grown-Up</I>, and it's pretty clear that the whole teen phenomenon could never have happened without the complicity of adults (who for the most part never want to grow older). <BR/><BR/>I've never seen Grey's Anatomy, but I was under the impression it was about doctors, not teens.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16077863462921142312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10891228.post-37141338196748857652007-08-29T04:26:00.000-07:002007-08-29T04:26:00.000-07:00Long time no see :)Nice post. I think that was the...Long time no see :)<BR/><BR/>Nice post. I think that was the best I've seen on my update list for several weeks.<BR/><BR/>I'd add, however, that, in fact, teenagerism is pretty much a function of TV, the computer, and these other methods of mass communication. Peer pressure can thus be readily applied, and people influenced easily from the centre of Hollywood. Hence the uniformity of teenagerism. Regardless of the strength of a given person's will, if you invariably watch Grey's Anatomy, listen to the latest music fad, and hear all your friends talking about such, it will be virtually impossible to remain aloof. So the cure to teenagerism needs to start with Hollywoodlessness, IMO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com